Life intruded over the past week and I had to binge-watch the NHK highlights show to catch up, but for once I saw the Day 10 bout before I got Tim's spoilers. Wow, I think I say this every tournament, but how great is this one? With the two Yokes already looking out of it, I'm figuring one of the ozekis will take it, but look at all those long shots in with a chance!
I am really thrilled to see big, lumbering Shishi doing so well. He still has to face the top rankers, but I don't think anybody has made as much improvement over the past year and I hope he keeps at it.
Really rooting for Papayasu and Atamifuji, too. Papa Bear is really showing off a variety of techniques and looking as good as he ever has.
I gotta figure out where to watch the juryo and makushita bouts. Too bad we probably won't see Takerufuji back at the top anytime soon, but glad to hear little Enho is doing well, and Tim don't count Kayo out. He only needs two more wins to get his K!
Absolutely. Injuries rob us of so much in sumo. Both Kotozakura and Kirishima were on great runs, with a lot of momentum, before being cut down by them.
re the atamifuji/onosato bout, i have been wondering how close it has to be for the judges to call a rematch vs declaring a winner. it seems more or less based on vibes to me at this point - compared to, say, rugby, where they'll do the slowest of slow motion replays from a gazillion angles to work out whether control over the ball was lost prior to the ball touching down or whether there a player's foot touched a blade of white (boundary) grass so that he was out etc.
yeah. it's only my second tournament that i'm actually watching (was only listening on the heavy hands patreon prior to that), so i don't have a good feel yet for how the judges are leaning or how they tend to do these things. like which factors seem to be important or weigh more than others etc., at what point does the dead body rule come in etc.
sometimes it's very clear and then sometimes i'm like, wait what now?
I have problems with the "dead body" rule too. Maybe Tim can clarify, but he's pretty busy, so as far as I can tell, it doesn't matter when you go down if you've already fired the other guy right out of the ring. You can be lying there covered in dirt and he can still be in mid-air, but if he's headed for the third row of seats you win.
I agree, it leaves a lot of room for "interpretation."
it definitely does. i'll need to watch more to get a better feel for how they usually interpret it. sometimes it's pretty clear-cut but it'll be interesting to see what they do with the leeway - so far i'm just observing but can't yet predict which way they'll be leaning on review.
Definitely a lot of room for interpretation. Given what we've seen over the 12 months, it seems like the ref/judges do not want to see you with your feet off the ground. In these close situations they are looking for who is most in control and who is most obviously attempting a recognizable winning maneuver. They seem to equate being airborne as being in conflict with either of those things. I don't like that interpretation of the rule (I think someone jumping into the air to do a slap down is worth as much as someone spearing that person off the ring with a full out dive and their toes scraping along the dirt). But I like that they are being pretty consistent with that.
thanks for that background info, that's really good to know. i like that they're consistent with it but also feel like being in the air can put you at a disadvantage pretty quickly.
Hi All, whilst right now I feel picking a winner is impossible….Mr insufferable is sticking with Aonishiki
Results of Kotazakura V Kirishima who is putting his card in for a run at Ozeki , he has been there B4 so he is well placed in terms of the expectations of the position that it holds. I like him and look forward to seeing him target that position, also Kotozakura he’s grown on me and I think he’s now running towards Yokozuna, this has come about because Aonishiki has butted his way in to Ozeki, so rivals to get there first ?
Briefly we need to keep an eye on Shishi he’s right there in the pack, this happened with Kotoshoho and bang there he was a the top !!!
Hoshoryu came through but think that win was more by luck than judgement!
He hobbled off, I feel like he thinks he’s now got to stay to the bitter end, and even though Onosato is out of the race I fear it maybe the same for him
We must accept that they particularly Hoshoryu have faced highly critical comments from the JSA, some of it correct, but they were the ones that installed Hoshoryu in a matter of minutes and whilst slightly more thought went into Onosato promotion neither should have been elevated so quickly and now here we are
The JSA have now pinned all their hopes on Aonishiki, and that’s now proving to be a problem, and so there will be panicking leading into the European leg [ Paris ] about Yokozunas not being up to snuff
There will be a number of JSA whom vehemently objected at the time to how quickly these Yokozuna got installed, now sitting back saying told you so !!
Yoshinofuji hasn’t really come forth so far and Hakunofuji is at the same level, when I think Terunofuji had thought with including Midorifuji , Nishikifuji and Enho
Making at my count 6 he was in with a good shot at something and by and large it’s come down to Atamifuji !
Everyone who knows my comments will know I am delighted Tim did quite a long write up on Atamifuji
Poor Atamifuji he’s embarrassed because all the women think he’s cute and sweet lol and obviously he wants to be thought of as crusher the merciless, but he’s beaten two Yokozuna in two straight out wins, Onosato got a second chance and still lost, I bet every judge and the JSA can’t believe he was beaten by Atamifuji whom let’s face it probably think he’s a nice enough guy but not really going far!!
I am just a person looking at it from a audience point of view, how we see it as a member of the public, but with a bit of Tim and you all that know the ins and outs thrown in
That was an especially good bout for yotsu-zumo techniques. Kotozakura is one of my favourites to watch when it comes to belt grappling. He's so smart in setting up traps and thinking two to three moves ahead.
Life intruded over the past week and I had to binge-watch the NHK highlights show to catch up, but for once I saw the Day 10 bout before I got Tim's spoilers. Wow, I think I say this every tournament, but how great is this one? With the two Yokes already looking out of it, I'm figuring one of the ozekis will take it, but look at all those long shots in with a chance!
I am really thrilled to see big, lumbering Shishi doing so well. He still has to face the top rankers, but I don't think anybody has made as much improvement over the past year and I hope he keeps at it.
Really rooting for Papayasu and Atamifuji, too. Papa Bear is really showing off a variety of techniques and looking as good as he ever has.
I gotta figure out where to watch the juryo and makushita bouts. Too bad we probably won't see Takerufuji back at the top anytime soon, but glad to hear little Enho is doing well, and Tim don't count Kayo out. He only needs two more wins to get his K!
Early hours say 4am uk time NHK ON YOUTUBE LIVE
I am already watching
On YouTube
@LeoDickinsonSumo
Hatsu Basho Sumo day 11
Look for that
It’s what I have been watching it’s all live
Finishes around 08.45 am
You can’t see it after that
Glad to see you! Midnight Sumo on Twitch features an endless loop of all the day's action.
It's been a real joy seeing both Kirishima and Kotozakura in good form. They're both such technicians.
Absolutely. Injuries rob us of so much in sumo. Both Kotozakura and Kirishima were on great runs, with a lot of momentum, before being cut down by them.
I’m wanting to see Aonishiki pull this out again. Though I will say I’m quietly pulling for Shishi.
Good chance they will fight each other at some point. They've done that before, but never with stakes anywhere close to this.
re the atamifuji/onosato bout, i have been wondering how close it has to be for the judges to call a rematch vs declaring a winner. it seems more or less based on vibes to me at this point - compared to, say, rugby, where they'll do the slowest of slow motion replays from a gazillion angles to work out whether control over the ball was lost prior to the ball touching down or whether there a player's foot touched a blade of white (boundary) grass so that he was out etc.
There have been a couple outcomes in this tournament that I thought were questionable.
yeah. it's only my second tournament that i'm actually watching (was only listening on the heavy hands patreon prior to that), so i don't have a good feel yet for how the judges are leaning or how they tend to do these things. like which factors seem to be important or weigh more than others etc., at what point does the dead body rule come in etc.
sometimes it's very clear and then sometimes i'm like, wait what now?
I have problems with the "dead body" rule too. Maybe Tim can clarify, but he's pretty busy, so as far as I can tell, it doesn't matter when you go down if you've already fired the other guy right out of the ring. You can be lying there covered in dirt and he can still be in mid-air, but if he's headed for the third row of seats you win.
I agree, it leaves a lot of room for "interpretation."
it definitely does. i'll need to watch more to get a better feel for how they usually interpret it. sometimes it's pretty clear-cut but it'll be interesting to see what they do with the leeway - so far i'm just observing but can't yet predict which way they'll be leaning on review.
Definitely a lot of room for interpretation. Given what we've seen over the 12 months, it seems like the ref/judges do not want to see you with your feet off the ground. In these close situations they are looking for who is most in control and who is most obviously attempting a recognizable winning maneuver. They seem to equate being airborne as being in conflict with either of those things. I don't like that interpretation of the rule (I think someone jumping into the air to do a slap down is worth as much as someone spearing that person off the ring with a full out dive and their toes scraping along the dirt). But I like that they are being pretty consistent with that.
thanks for that background info, that's really good to know. i like that they're consistent with it but also feel like being in the air can put you at a disadvantage pretty quickly.
Hi All, whilst right now I feel picking a winner is impossible….Mr insufferable is sticking with Aonishiki
Results of Kotazakura V Kirishima who is putting his card in for a run at Ozeki , he has been there B4 so he is well placed in terms of the expectations of the position that it holds. I like him and look forward to seeing him target that position, also Kotozakura he’s grown on me and I think he’s now running towards Yokozuna, this has come about because Aonishiki has butted his way in to Ozeki, so rivals to get there first ?
Briefly we need to keep an eye on Shishi he’s right there in the pack, this happened with Kotoshoho and bang there he was a the top !!!
Hoshoryu came through but think that win was more by luck than judgement!
He hobbled off, I feel like he thinks he’s now got to stay to the bitter end, and even though Onosato is out of the race I fear it maybe the same for him
We must accept that they particularly Hoshoryu have faced highly critical comments from the JSA, some of it correct, but they were the ones that installed Hoshoryu in a matter of minutes and whilst slightly more thought went into Onosato promotion neither should have been elevated so quickly and now here we are
The JSA have now pinned all their hopes on Aonishiki, and that’s now proving to be a problem, and so there will be panicking leading into the European leg [ Paris ] about Yokozunas not being up to snuff
There will be a number of JSA whom vehemently objected at the time to how quickly these Yokozuna got installed, now sitting back saying told you so !!
Yoshinofuji hasn’t really come forth so far and Hakunofuji is at the same level, when I think Terunofuji had thought with including Midorifuji , Nishikifuji and Enho
Making at my count 6 he was in with a good shot at something and by and large it’s come down to Atamifuji !
Everyone who knows my comments will know I am delighted Tim did quite a long write up on Atamifuji
Poor Atamifuji he’s embarrassed because all the women think he’s cute and sweet lol and obviously he wants to be thought of as crusher the merciless, but he’s beaten two Yokozuna in two straight out wins, Onosato got a second chance and still lost, I bet every judge and the JSA can’t believe he was beaten by Atamifuji whom let’s face it probably think he’s a nice enough guy but not really going far!!
Good stuff. Good insight.
Thanks
I am just a person looking at it from a audience point of view, how we see it as a member of the public, but with a bit of Tim and you all that know the ins and outs thrown in
That was an especially good bout for yotsu-zumo techniques. Kotozakura is one of my favourites to watch when it comes to belt grappling. He's so smart in setting up traps and thinking two to three moves ahead.